Curse

poasiods · Jun 06, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

The one solution to surviving PuG is to lead the party yourself and make everyone ping their skill bars... And kick if you don't like what you're seeing...

Accursed · Jun 06, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kela Ven Tori

A monk shouldn't bring res. Mid-line casters should.

Quoted for truth.

Diddy bow · Jun 06, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Nothing wrong with a monk bringing a rez, i mean its pve

.

...Just dont use it mid battle

Edge Martinez · Jun 06, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Bring Vengaence for the lulz.

TheRaven · Jun 06, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Bad pugs are mainly the result of poor planning. Does it really take that much effort to ask folks to ping their bars before starting? If you see horrible bars then leave the group before starting or step up and suggest changes.

If the bad bars refuse to change then you decide whether or not you want to stay with the group or leave and find a better one. If you stay, then quit griping. You know what you're getting into and what skill level to probably expect.

I did Ring of Fire a few months ago with a team. One of the rangers in the group pinged a horrible skill bar. He had 4 bow attacks and 4 dagger attacks. I asked him why he had dagger skills instead of ranger skills and he said uses his longbow to attack, but when the enemies run up to him, he pulls out the daggers.

Oooookay. Hmmm. I asked him to change, but he refused and the rest of the team wasn't backing me up so I shut up about it and started the mission. I didn't need the mission and was just along for fun, so I didn't care if we wiped. We completed the mission and bonus with little trouble and the dagger ranger actually wasn't as bad as I was expecting. (He wasn't that great, but not horrible either)

As far as rezzes are concerned, I usually bring something. My warrior almost always brings rebirth. I've found it useful for saving a party wipe during missions. My ele usually brings the rez sig. I like to have at least 2 or 3 hard rezzes in the group for emergencies and I prefer it if everyone brings at least a sig because you never know who the last man standing will be.

I also have an unbreakable rule that I will never ever rez someone during combat. I'll continue to fight and kill the monsters or run away if things are bad. Once the action dies down, then we can attend to the dead.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jun 06, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

i think monks with res is pretty cool guy. eh stops monking when its needed most and doesnt afraid of anything.

srsly tho, yeah pugs suck usually. solution=dont play with ppl if you could replace them with a hero who would do the same job better.

Aera Lure · Jun 06, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

I also have an unbreakable rule that I will never ever rez someone during combat. I'll continue to fight and kill the monsters or run away if things are bad. Once the action dies down, then we can attend to the dead.

Except for a signet. I like a warrior that will bring a signet and midliners that bring a hard res or two. If a group is set up like that, you're often going to be just fine. In the case where one of the monks runs into trouble, something happens with the aggro or whatever, and one dies, its really nice to have the warrior be able to use a signet and bring them back. Sometimes the other remaining monk can carry the day until full normal ressing can occur, but having the signet can avoid the need to suddenly have to fall back and regroup, because you obviously dont want a midliner (or god forbid a warrior in your case) stopping to cast Rebirth on a fallen monk mid-battle.

Dallcingi · Jun 06, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Pugs have always been bad and will always remain bad... cause they are random.

Aera Lure · Jun 06, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallcingi

Pugs will sometimes be bad... cause they are random.

Fixed. I mean c'mon, did you play during Prophecies and Factions at all when PUGs were the norm? It was that or a guild group all the way until the introduction of heroes, save for the few who played only with henchmen. It went downhill from there, yes, but before then there actually was some co-op, and it actually wasnt all bad.

phan · Jun 06, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riceboi

Monk with no res claiming only noob monks have res=seriously wtf?

I arz pruuu munk ; with reburth are over ..

Decent monks should never have a ress ;

why ?

Because they need all the skill slots they can have .

I'd rather not bring a res and keep people alive than bringing a res to res people =)

The Red Messenger · Jun 06, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05

if you must pug, i suggest working on leadership skills, and kicking those who dont cooperate/do what their class needs to do. also, have people ping bars before starting to either help them get a better build or weed out the weak

Pugs always get worse this time of year.

School is out.

in about 30 more days when 90% of public schools are out, pugs will be at peak stupidity.

besides, most people who pug are (in my experience)

a) people who failed when using hero/hench
b) people who enjoy pugs, but already completed that mission. they have nothing on the line if the team fails

HuntMaster Avatar · Jun 06, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

I love how everyone thinks PvE is too easy yet they say Monks need all 8 slots in order to keep the party alive. How bad are these players that they get pwnt so hard in PvE? Seriously?

My Hero Monk uses 4-5 heal skills max and I NEVER DIE, My party NEVER DIES. I guess if you are playing in HM then monks need every skill for healing/prot. But in NM they can bring res. If one skill decides whether a party fails or not, You need a better monk. You also need better players who know how to play their characters without taking mega damage from every little hit.

But again, this is a game filled with Warriors who don't know how to tank, Monks who can't heal, Ranged professions that do not run from monsters when they begin getting meleed on.

Oh, and BTW, When you have 2-3 melee characters, all attacking different monsters, you're party fails.. concentrate attacks on the same monsters to bring down mobs faster. Don't run ahead of the party thinking you are going to survive.

And for the monks. Keeping the tanks alive is priority 1, When the tank falls the monsters begin to smash on the lower armor rating characters, which kills them fast. Don't res the necro or ele or assassin or paragon or ranger before the warrior because you will just die in the end. You need the tank to absorb damage. I see this mistake ALL the time. Dervishes and assassins are good but they are not as good at tanking as warriors. Res the warrior first.

TheRaven · Jun 06, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Except for a signet. I like a warrior that will bring a signet and midliners that bring a hard res or two. If a group is set up like that, you're often going to be just fine. In the case where one of the monks runs into trouble, something happens with the aggro or whatever, and one dies, its really nice to have the warrior be able to use a signet and bring them back. Sometimes the other remaining monk can carry the day until full normal ressing can occur, but having the signet can avoid the need to suddenly have to fall back and regroup, because you obviously dont want a midliner (or god forbid a warrior in your case) stopping to cast Rebirth on a fallen monk mid-battle.

You're correct. I totally forgot about signets. I guess I was thinking more of hard rezzes. For PvP I only use a rez sig and yes, I will use it in the middle of battle. In those situations it's appropiate to use during battle.

For PvE, I'm generally reluctant to use the rez sig during battle. My logic is this: Can we survive and recover from this without me wasting my one and only rez? If the answer is a possible yes then I'd prefer to save the sig for emergencies. I've seen too many situations where the only person left alive had no rez because they used their sig earlier. Usually they used it when they didn't need to. There was another party member alive with a hard rez and they used a sig instead rather than waiting.

There are a few exceptions:
1. PvP, like I said earlier. PvP is rez now, rez fast or lose.
2. I know that I'll get the sig back soon. Either we're currently fighting a boss or I know that there are at least 2 or 3 more bosses in the mission.

Arnack · Jun 06, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Maybe because they are newbs? If you like it or not, they are everywhere. They reside in every game. Instead of flaming them, why not tell them how to get better? That seems like the logical answer to me.

Aera Lure · Jun 06, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

You're correct. I totally forgot about signets. I guess I was thinking more of hard rezzes. For PvP I only use a rez sig and yes, I will use it in the middle of battle. In those situations it's appropiate to use during battle.

For PvE, I'm generally reluctant to use the rez sig during battle. My logic is this: Can we survive and recover from this without me wasting my one and only rez? If the answer is a possible yes then I'd prefer to save the sig for emergencies. I've seen too many situations where the only person left alive had no rez because they used their sig earlier. Usually they used it when they didn't need to. There was another party member alive with a hard rez and they used a sig instead rather than waiting.

There are a few exceptions:
1. PvP, like I said earlier. PvP is rez now, rez fast or lose.
2. I know that I'll get the sig back soon. Either we're currently fighting a boss or I know that there are at least 2 or 3 more bosses in the mission.

I agree. I agreed with you before too.. was just pointing out the mighty signet.

Not sure I'd put Rebirth on a warrior if we knew a midliner had it, but I would simply have been happy enough to meet a warrior that gave it thought one way or the other, to be quite honest, as you have.

A Leprechaun · Jun 06, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

I love how everyone thinks PvE is too easy yet they say Monks need all 8 slots in order to keep the party alive. How bad are these players that they get pwnt so hard in PvE? Seriously?

My Hero Monk uses 4-5 heal skills max and I NEVER DIE, My party NEVER DIES. I guess if you are playing in HM then monks need every skill for healing/prot. But in NM they can bring res. If one skill decides whether a party fails or not, You need a better monk. You also need better players who know how to play their characters without taking mega damage from every little hit.

But again, this is a game filled with Warriors who don't know how to tank, Monks who can't heal, Ranged professions that do not run from monsters when they begin getting meleed on.

Oh, and BTW, When you have 2-3 melee characters, all attacking different monsters, you're party fails.. concentrate attacks on the same monsters to bring down mobs faster. Don't run ahead of the party thinking you are going to survive.

And for the monks. Keeping the tanks alive is priority 1, When the tank falls the monsters begin to smash on the lower armor rating characters, which kills them fast. Don't res the necro or ele or assassin or paragon or ranger before the warrior because you will just die in the end. You need the tank to absorb damage. I see this mistake ALL the time. Dervishes and assassins are good but they are not as good at tanking as warriors. Res the warrior first.

If you never die why do your monks need to carry a rez?
A warrior tanking = Bad. Grow a pair and hit stuff.

~A Leprechaun~

HuntMaster Avatar · Jun 06, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnack

Maybe because they are newbs? If you like it or not, they are everywhere. They reside in every game. Instead of flaming them, why not tell them how to get better? That seems like the logical answer to me.

From experience trying to explain something in a polite, thoughtful, respectful way pisses people off, their ego's get wounded and they end up exploding with a reply of F you noob! Or, I like my build, is another reply I have gotten a lot. And when a new player asks for help, normally they only get a "Read wiki noob" response. Its hopeless.

I am not flaming newbs BTW. I am simply saying that if you are at a later area in the game you should have the basics down by now. It doesnt take long for people to learn " I am a caster, a big monster is meleeing me, I should run away" but they still dont. And New players to the game should not run professions that require "Skill" to use properly, Any fool can tank with a warrior, Only "experienced player should run monks" get the basics down before you try to emulate someone's playstyle you have seen before.

I know fire eles who do not have a single elite skills, but they have elite armor. HOW THE F DO THEY DO IT? I gave up on people along time ago, My heroes know exactly what to do and when to do it, they do not fail me or frustrate me. I wish everyone the best of luck, But 9 times outa 10, they have to practice hard just to upgrade their skill to "Suck".

And I am far from a "good" player. I run a warrior, My job is simple, Any fool can do my job, My heroes keep me alive and win the day for me everytime. I just have to have more HP than the monsters deal Damage. Its easy.

Winning combo= 1 healer monk hero, 1 mm hero, 1 fire hero, 2 melee henchies, 2 healer henchies. Never fails me. Not even in HM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

If you never die why do your monks need to carry a rez?
A warrior tanking = Bad. Grow a pair and hit stuff.

~A Leprechaun~

Tanking = absorbing damage constantly and not dying. I do this without skills, But I keep endure pain just incase. I am a damage dealer/energy build. I do plenty of damage. My monk carries res, Just incase. Because sometimes, when the moon is full and the wolves are prowling, and the tv is on, and the booze is kicking in, I slip up and my fire ele bites it.

But my warrior never dies. I havnt had a death when I H/H in a long time. Now if I put my life in the hands of a monk player, I will die because he/she will have to heal casters who are within melee range of monsters. So I get ignored because I can keep myself alive for the most part. vampiric+endure pain. But I can not carry the team against 3 level 20+ monsters.

isamu kurosawa · Jun 06, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diddy bow

Nothing wrong with a monk bringing a rez, i mean its pve

.

...Just dont use it mid battle

The way i see it just because its pve doesn't mean it's ok to suck.

People who insist monks should res need to go back to pre and learn how to play. same goes with those using monk heals as self heals, non ranger martials with less than 14 wm, xx echo nukers...and so on.

The worst part of pug play is that no oen takes responsibility, its always someone elses fault and their build/play is impeccable.

I met up with someone the other day asking for help with a dungeon saying nobody lets him join their teams because they don't understand his skill.
He was using [[barbarous slice], [[gash], [[mark of protection], had 9 wm, then rest in healing and prot...no healing skilsl on his bar.

I sent him off to read an article on how to play warrior but he seid he can't be bothered reading because its for geeks.

non monks should use [[death pact signet], [[flesh of my flesh], [[resurrection signet], [[signet of return].

Mesmers can spec other resses and still be effective at combat ressing.

BlackSephir · Jun 06, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

Warriors who don't know how to tank

Quote:

Dervishes and assassins are good but they are not as good at tanking as warriors. Res the warrior first.

You win gw imo.

HuntMaster Avatar · Jun 06, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

You win gw imo.

Well its a given if the warrior doesnt tank as well as a sin or derv then dont res him first, but if all the players are equally good, res the war first. That way he can tank while you heal up the rest of the party and support the warrior. It all depends on whos controlling the tank after all, But high armor + high HP + good tank skills is hard to come by with sins and dervs. And dervs/Sins take more skill than a warrior ever will.